The Personas we Portray
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Hey y'all, we are back and I thought it would be fun to share some exciting news as we start this episode of the Spark Influence Podcast.
So in Spark Media we have a network of podcasters and on Monday of this week we launched.
The Spark Collective YouTube channel, which is short inspirational videos from a variety of podcasters, and so if you like You Tube or you prefer to watch videos, I encourage you to subscribe to the Spark Media collective.
Dev channel for some encouragement.
I also wanted to start off this episode by saying thank you so much to all of our incredible listeners.
We've been getting texts, messages and people have been leaving us reviews like this one from Kaethe that says amazing authentic.
Thankful for this amazing and authentic podcast.
Hosts they are.
Are a blessing to all who know and listen to them, blessed to be both.
Love the honesty and the desire to pursue excellence in all they do one another.
One says love their hearts.
We have so many and because of all of these fantastic reviews that you have left us this show after only four.
Episodes is already ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts globally, and I think that's something to celebrate. What do you think?
Sweetie, yeah it's pretty neat.
That and we did celebrate our 30 year anniversary this week, so it's been just a week full of celebration.
Yeah, so as we were talking in preparing.
This week's episodes we kind of alluded to this subject matter when I ask you about how your faith plays out at your work, and you were like, yeah, that's a whole episode in itself, so that's what we thought we where we would go back to. Sort of.
Business leadership focus today and talk about, you know you said, you know, we have one face when we're at home and one face when we're in public and one face when we're at work.
And why can't we have the same face all the time and be the same person all the time?
So that's kind of the question that I'd like to for us too.
Explore and I want to frame it around this verse that comes from First Corinthians 1030.
And it says so whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God.
So as a believer, you know, I think that's just the thing that people should know us by our excellence and the way that we do our work.
And also in just our character.
You mentioned that in the way that we treat people.
But I want to ask you, Peter, why do you think people have one face?
That's a business face, one face that's a family face or another one they may have with their church, friends and another one in their social life.
Why is that?
Yeah, that's it's a pretty multifaceted question, right?
Part of it is, so let's segment it in for business.
Let's segment it into.
There are, you know, since the dawn of HR departments, things have gotten a lot more complicated in offices, and there are lots of rules and bylaws and regulations that they put out that says you can behave in this way.
You can say things this way.
There's things you can't say you can't, you know cause cause discomfort to other people.
There's a lot of things that you know that are regulated in organizations, especially as they get bigger in size, but that private public work persona thing is so.
If I take my home persona of me, the face I put at home, that's a very diff.
There's no barriers.
There's no guards, I am I am who I am at home and I may use language and words that I would never use in the workplace, right?
I call you butterfly or I call you mom like but I'm not going to go to work and have that kind of same familiarity or or a laxness with with individuals at work.
Publicly, you're a different person.
Just because you're out and you need to.
There has to be some Shields and protection that you put up, right?
You can't go out and justice be they fully exposed you.
That's at home, right?
And it doesn't mean you're dishonest.
It doesn't mean you're being deceptive, it just means it's a different facet of who you are in that space in the business.
It's even more constrained 'cause you have to be really careful about.
What you say how you say it?
How you treat.
There's there's all of the personal space rules and and how do you treat individuals?
Whether it's in a meeting or or just in general like even.
Even the face that you put up in e-mail is not the you.
This structured, formalized interaction that occurs.
And that's and there's that's usually very protective, right?
You can't come in and and you know, sort of.
You take the Mad Men style like 50s, how an office was then?
It's very different now, right?
There's lots of different.
Men and women in the workplace, right?
There's different nationalities, people from all over the world.
So there's this, uh, real complex, sort of dance you have.
To do where you walk a really tight line.
So you put that face on.
That's the person you become in work.
It doesn't mean that I like how you started because the goal and aspiration is for someone to know you're a Christian without asking you your question.
It's kinda like those jokes like how to tell me you're Christian without telling me.
You're Christian, right?
So it's kind of like that, so you want that you want to.
Show love and and.
Respect and for others.
All the time, regardless of the face you're wearing, that should always be how you are and without dropping Christian code words right like you don't have to always say.
Well, I was so blessed this morning like those are just that's like Christian secret handshakes, right?
Yeah it's yeah.
Christian News is even better, right?
So those things all should be peppered and salted through your personalities and your personas.
But there are a lot more Shields up and I just want to emphasize it's not a deceptive fake.
It's just a constrained or guarded persona that you interact in business with.
It's much different.
Well and that's a really great point because we are to be the light of the world and we are to be salt right?
So what does it mean to be salt and light, right?
We don't want to be so salty that we actually.
Really turn people away from Jesus or we don't want to misrepresent the Lord in any kind of way so that people are like, well, if that's what a Christian is.
I don't want to be that, so it's actually I feel like it's a.
It's a it's a burden and A and a responsibility not like in a drudgery, but just like it's a great.
Responsibility that we have because we may be the only Jesus that somebody sees in their life.
If they don't go to church, if they and so they will know us by our love for them.
That's what the word says.
Yeah, and that's I mean, I don't think that can be overemphasized, right?
Like how how you are the guarded.
And yes, there's words you can't say, and you can't.
There's things you can't do.
In an office right there.
And and just companies in general. It doesn't matter if you're working at Chick-fil-A or water burger or work.
For Goldman Sachs, right?
Like that's there.
There's rules and things you have to adhere to.
Those color and shape the persona you're going to put on.
Right, but you're still going to want to try to shine through, and that comes from just loving others, right?
And just being that light.
And then that that'll that they'll recognize that and you can do all of that without breaking any of those rules.
Now, some of the more tech companies are that's it's a more dangerous territory, right?
Because you know, it's kind of like you bring your Bible and read it.
Much like there's people who've been fired from companies like that because they're doing that so now.
Then we crossover.
It's like the mild persecution realm, right?
But if you're in if you're in Silicon Valley, you should expect a much different interaction, and you're going to have a very different face.
You're going to have a very guarded persona that that you're going to put up, even though you still want.
Be and who you are, which this is the sad indictment on where we are societally right, that that we would have to even be that like I should be able to be proud and have and say that I'm constitutionally protected to be that way right.
But it's still a battleground right now.
Absolutely, and you know something else that we talked about this weekend that I hadn't planned on bringing it, but I think it's it's appropriate. There was a large, you know, BIG4 consult.
Confirm that you worked for and you said that there was like during Pride Month.
They were giving out stickers for everybody to put on their computers like making you embrace an ideology that goes against your Christian values and beliefs.
00:09:16 Speaker 1
And so let's talk about that for a minute.
So when you are.
In a culture.
That is pro something that goes against your Christian values, like what did you do in that situation?
How did you?
Handle it, did you take the Pride sticker?
Did you put it on your computer?
You know, do you donate to organizations that you know are supporting abortion or like?
Tell us how you handle that in the workplace.
So that specific instance there's no job on Earth that is worth more than my values and my morals that I live by right?
So I'm not going to compromise those.
I'm not going to be necessarily adversarial or overtly confrontational about it.
I just said no and it it was, it was.
It was heavily suggested.
And it was very noted, if you were not.
If you didn't have these things right.
If you weren't putting those on your.
Laptop or you?
Weren't signing up for whatever it is they were doing for their events.
It was noted that you were not there and it probably would impact you like from a review process or maybe a bonus thing down the line.
You would never know it, but it would definitely.
Have some kind of impact, right?
But I I did to me.
I was like no, this is not, you know, can I?
Because I I at the time I ask, can I stick put cross stickers I'm like can I put cross stickers on my on my laptop and I'm like no, these are the these are the things that we're, you know you're allowed to put.
I'm like, OK so.
No, I'm not going to put it right if I can't put what I want, they're like, well, we have a.
You know the policy says we only have an allowed number of stickers, and I'm like, yeah well, I could offend the client like I maybe I could offend the client by going with this, you know, just as easily as other people can be offended.
Right, so there's no generic non offensive thing right?
Except our company made the company logo or something right?
And so that it was just a flat no, right?
And there was no impact. They weren't, uh, at the time, you know, this was probably back in 2013 or so, but.
They were not.
There was no repercussions for it, but I definitely made it known that no, I'm not going to do this.
And so when you're at work and you are you, let's go back to that, you know you talked about the office complications of HR and you know that.
That can make things challenging, but you in your career you've worked with because of being in technology.
Not a fan.
An episode of Star Trek right?
You have the men and women and all nationalities and some of your even really good friends have have become.
People of you know a Muslim faith, and so I think you both came to a point where you, you know, know that that's something you disagree on.
But it's not an issue.
You've kind of seen past that and have been able to develop not just a great working relationship, but also.
Friendship, right? And so you can respect the other person's viewpoint, and I think that's something that we have a hard time in our culture right now, because people make assumptions.
If you're a Christian, then you must be X, or if you're not a Christian, then you must be that right.
Yeah, I mean.
So the problem is the collective or the masses.
Is is a very different engagement than the personal right?
So you could say if say you were had some negative feeling or opinion about Muslims in general, right?
And you don't.
I don't like them, they're they're.
They're XY and Z and you have no belief in that.
And that's fine.
But when you collect, when you consume them as a collective group.
And you're never going to get through.
You're never going to find the information you need to find you're never going to have relevant information.
It's going to be just like this, you know, shadow, that you're trying to fight, right?
But when you get down to the individual, you have the single person like this individual that you're.
How about I we became friends and we worked together and I flat out asked him.
I said I have real serious questions about Muslim faith.
I don't understand some things and he said let's have lunch and just ask me what you want.
It's not ever cereal.
I'm not accusing you.
I just not.
I'm not going to read the.
Crown so I.
Want to know some things right?
And I I these are the things I think.
I knows what I've been told.
And you can tell me this, and there were some things that he was like that's 100% wrong like that's not how it works like.
And then he would show me this is actually what it says.
Like it, you know you were wrong about this.
He, the man is not so lorded over.
Actually, if he leaves, he's gotta leave the woman with the house.
And it was like a very interesting conversation, right?
And then so we had that was.
Conversely, we turned around 'cause he had misconceptions about.
Christianity and we had great conversations and we are friends to this day and I've known him since 2003 and we have lunch. You know very frequently and but we had an honest open conversation.
And I could see him for him.
Now he knows I'm working on him to bring him to.
Him to our side.
He doesn't try to convert me, but I've always tried to convert.
We Christians have the the the mandate to go out and make more Christians right?
He he doesn't.
He has a different mandate somewhat in the in the Crown, right?
So, but that and so.
But that comes that we've made.
Remained friends for a long time and I still pray for him and we're in.
We will work through that and I've had several like that, right?
I've had some friends from from India and I've had some some Buddhists and some Hindu friends like that are all we've had.
Very honest conversations at at the individual level.
Not ever serial, not beating you over the head.
With my Bible, I'm just having a conversation and that was.
From me developing a relationship with the business persona, Peter right to them or out friend Peter, right, like casually in the world, and then we became friends, friends and that was the much more intimate ring that allowed us to have these very honest conversations about a lot of different things, right?
And so especially our religions which is.
You know next to bringing up abortion.
Your religion is going to.
It's going to light things on fire, right?
You can have very contentious conversations.
It yeah that that persona can impact you, but it also can be a bridge right?
I use that work persona as a bridge to become coworking friends so that I could transition to a much deeper conversation.
Yeah, that's that's really good.
So let's get back to this theme of the episode, which is.
Having different faces.
So when I left the corporate world and came home, I was home all the time, right?
So I was wife and mom and y'all were my full time job and all of my friends that I hung out with were all believers right?
And so I have a little bit of.
A Pollyannaish attitude.
Now that I am in.
You know the corporate world, the business world of podcasting?
With Spark media?
You know I've had some interactions with people who, you know have different motivations or different things that I'm used to because I'm I am kind of the same person.
No matter where I am, I think that's my little sort of living in a Christian bubble for a long time has allowed me to do that, and I think some of my difficulties that I have experienced now.
You know, being back, I'm unapologetic about my faith.
You are, yeah, your different faces are very slightly shifted.
Right, so I would like to hear because it's very different for women in business than it is for men, right?
That's still a very different world.
I'd like to hear you talk a little more about like so when you were at Enron or when you were recruiting like you were in the traditional space of office.
How how different mean?
Think back to that face for you?
Or like how different was that for you 'cause you had to be very different like you were.
You were had.
To be a different person, especially you didn't run.
Yeah, but really I with what I did as as a I was recruiting so I was in the HR department but I was in the recruiting portion of it and so most of my interactions were.
I sat in a cubicle and had a you know my phone and my computer and I went through resumes and made calls and reached out to people.
And had conversations for people because at that time everybody wanted to work at Enron, right?
So a lot of what?
I did was weeding through the resumes finding qualified candidates and then I had some amazing coworkers that I worked with and my boss at the time two was an incredible leader and then I got to work from home which was unheard of back then.
So that for me that experience I don't think was that much different.
'cause I really was only downtown in the office.
You know, a day or two a week and then.
Yeah, but there's still the the you know, accidental coffee encounter and we have the weekly meeting or whatever that has to happen, right?
That's where those interactions occur, right?
Yeah, yeah, I mean probably you know for me that was more of Whittaker because when I was a recruiter at Whittaker, we had the big conference table every Monday morning.
We all had to, you know, give the status report of what was happening and there was definitely, you know, office politics and those kind of things.
Which I've never been good at.
I speak my mind.
I say what I'm thinking and sometimes I speak.
Before I think.
And all of those things can, yeah, it's.
It's good you have your own company.
All those things can get me in trouble, right?
But I think you know the point is really to get back to the core of the episode is for us to try to be even if we're constrained to be a Christ follower and to be an image bearer as we you know, go out into the world.
Whether that is going to a restaurant like.
Last night when we went to the restaurant for our anniversary, we made friends immediately with the manager who gave U.S.
Then we became friends with our waiter, right?
We am endeared them very quickly.
And then the next thing we know, we're we're in the conversation with the the back waiters and the other people.
And then we're talking to the great couple that was sitting next door to us who was was celebrating their anniversary as well.
And so I think that that part of us and not in a work environment, but in a more, you know, casual setting.
I think something that you've just.
Taught me really well over the years is just it doesn't matter who you talk to.
If it's the CEO of a company or if it's the janitor you talk to each and everyone and you're just kind and you just have a skill of you know, making people feel it.
Ease and making them feel comfortable and making them feel you know seen and heard and making that connection with them.
Yeah, that's that's the best.
Example of being a Christian right?
I don't have to wear.
A giant cross and a preacher hat and then come in and give a sermon every time I talk to somebody that's made for Christians who are Christians, right?
That's the interaction with Christians interact differently with Christians than they do with the world or unknowns.
So respect just basic respect and know that they're all humans and like you told me yesterday or this morning, they're all created in God's image, right?
So every single person has value and worth regardless of what they do or where they live or what they have, right that matter of fact.
All of that should be non considered.
You should just know that.
They're a human being and you should have a genuine interaction.
It's a very important thing because the world is very judgy.
The world is super judgy, right?
And it's the bag you carry and the car you drive and your zip code matters more to the rest of the world than the fact that you're just a human being who has a rich tapestry of experience in life.
They have a heart that can love like all of those things.
Is what we should talk about and we should care about.
Not that you're carrying Louis Vuitton bag and that you're super cool with your Coco sunglasses, right?
Like that's that's that's trivial T this dust right?
It doesn't matter.
None of that goes with you.
So interact with people that way.
That's how you can still have that other face.
Yes, but it's still.
You're still not sacrificing your Christian motivation.
Who you are right?
You're not hiding it.
You're not putting your lamp under a bushel.
You're still using, but you're doing it in a more measured way, right?
It's like combat with a bow as opposed to hand to hand, right you, you're doing this farther away so.
Yeah, I love that you brought that up about image bearers.
You know, if we are burying the image of Christ and understanding that everyone we encounter is also an image bearer.
Whether we agree with them on their politics or their religion or their work ethic, if we can see them.
In light of the way that God sees them, I think that's a game changer.
100%, yeah, absolutely. So you know circle back.
It's it's kind of hard to explain sometimes, and there's a really good saying the Japanese have a saying about that you have the face you show yourself your real true face and then the face you show your spouse and then your public, and then your leaders.
I can't remember the exact saying I should have looked it up before this, but.
If you sit back and analyze your interactions with the world, you'll realize, Oh yeah, this is what I do, right?
People behave differently in different scenarios, and that's natural human that we've learned that for a long time to their more chameleon type behavior.
But we don't ever peel away or hide or cover up the core.
Of that which is the for a Christian, it's it's your belief and your love and your mission, which is to make you know disciples of everyone, right?
So that's always should be there in the back of your head.
Even though you're like, well, I want to come at this in a little different way because full frontal attack may not work.
I mean, come from the side and be very subtle and.
And just love them, right?
That's the one that works.
That's what wins.
That's what like last night when we went out we were just kind and loved the people around us and we ended up.
Having an amazing time, got the best seat in the house and you know had had a lot of fun with all the people around us and it was just a tremendous experience.
Better we had a better experience at other tables in the restaurant because we were just loving them right?
And it was just a fun time so you can do that in all your interactions every day, right?
And I fall over for that.
Like this morning you were.
Chastising me for I was very annoyed with somebody, but you know, that's just part of our struggle, right?
Every day you're going to trip.
You're gonna stumble you're going to fall down.
But don't stop, don't stop doing that.
That's right, and I think if we can try to be, you know the same person.
And you're right, there's there are times I can remember when when I was growing up with my friends and you know, there's certain slang or vernacular that people say.
And if I hung out with them for a long time then.
I would start saying those same sort of things and so I think that we need to be careful.
It's a good lesson about who we're spending our time with and how we're we're letting our interactions affect us.
And so if we have that negative interaction in the workplace that we're not bringing that frustration, you know.
Oh for sure.
Home into our home environment, right?
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
And and I think all of that kind of goes to like giving people some grace to.
We need a little more grace.
In the world.
Everybody needs it every day, right?
Leave, don't don't take the baggage home and don't believe your own press like just really 222 biggest things, right?
You know, take that for the for the. For the traditional model of the father's working coming Home Park your car, sit in the car for five minutes.
Put all your work away in your head.
Say a prayer and then go in and be with your family would be there right?
Learn to segment those things off and cut them off and put it away because.
And my dad used to say don't worry about work, it'll always be there.
There's always more work to do all the time, but there is some more time with your family and your spouse.
So put those things away, turn that face off, give them the home face.
Yeah, that's a little bit harder to do as an entrepreneur when you are at home with your work and your family.
Yeah, we can go outside, go outside and park, sit in the car and turn.
All the time.
Turn it off.
But yeah it is.
That's entrepreneurship is a different episode because.
And I think we should address that because the work from home culture now there's no off like when do you stop like I'll go pick up my laptop and I'm looking at 11:00 o'clock at night and I'm doing client emails and I'm like why am I doing this, you know?
And I think for somebody like me who has a very strong work ethic, very type, a very driven like that is hard for me to do to rest, and I can always find something to do, whether it's work in the house or work you know other work.
So that's probably a whole entire episode.
So yeah, turn off your zoom face like whatever that that's your, you know zoom face you have for work.
Turn it off.
If your homework.
So I think that that is a great place to end this episode.
Any final thoughts?
Now thank you for this topic.
Like coming up.
I mean we we kind of sorted this on the weekend, but this is a great.
Topic I want to keep diving into.
The intricacies of how we do all of these things, right business, family life, right?
So it's a great topic.
I look forward to next week with you.